Vuelta a España 2012

[just some guy]

Vuelta a España 2012

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vuelta-a-espana-2012-with-team-time-trial-and-bola-del-mundo

Start with a TTT - some of the streets used to run the Bulls in Pamplona

and Bola del Munda is back for the 2012 route.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Stage 2 to finish on Higo de Monréal or Sierra de San Miguel de Áralar *hopes*

Boy, that'd be a thumb to the eye for the sprinters...

 

[Michielveedeebee]

What a mountain can't wait

 

[The Hitch]

As I expected

If the prodical son confirms his return (Valverde too) then surely they will include that climb that is so close to his native Madrid that was so successful in 2010 so that all the fans can come out and the home hero can get that special win.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

As I expected

You won teh internetz today

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Stage 2 to finish on Higo de Monréal or Sierra de San Miguel de Áralar *hopes*

Boy, that'd be a thumb to the eye for the sprinters...

The only sprinters turning up will be the runts of the litter. Decent sprinters will ride Giro, Tour, Olympics then enjoy an extended break.

 

[Richeypen]

The only sprinters turning up will be the runts of the litter. Decent sprinters will ride Giro, Tour, Olympics then enjoy an extended break.

Could well see the likes of Kittel again. IMO Skil or whatever they are called now wont get a Giro or Tour invite but put on a positive show here this year.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The only sprinters turning up will be the runts of the litter. Decent sprinters will ride Giro, Tour, Olympics then enjoy an extended break.

Oh yea, I'd forgotten about the Olympics.

That's the best Grand Tour news I've heard in ages.

 

[Descender]

Is it much to ask that people see if there's a thread already on a topic before opening another one?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=15295&highlight=vuelta+2012

 

[just some guy]

Is it much to ask that people see if there's a thread already on a topic before opening another one?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=15295&highlight=vuelta+2012

Does it matter the mods will move posts into your thread if they feel like it.

Not such a big deal

 

[airstream]

Great. One of the few Vuelta climbs that really interesting to watch. If riders are proposed stuff like Arcalis, Velefique, Abantos and some others, they may not attack at all. Most of the Vuelta climbs tend to lull everyone, unfortunately.

 

[jsem94]

I loved Bola del Mundo in 2010.. this will be great

 

[Lupetto]

Vuelta officials have already hinted that the 2012 edition will be less demanding than the rugged, brutal course the peloton tackled this year.

Many riders said this year’s mountainous Vuelta was the hardest grand tour they’ve ever raced. Abraham Olano, the Vuelta’s technical director, said the route next year will continue to explore the smaller backroads of Spain, but will likely include less climbing.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...ry-bola-del-mundo-pyrenees-likely-back_197004

 

[airstream]

Does anyone know why the Vuelta organizers avoid of using French Pyrenees so persistently? Perhaps, the race could visit France once in 3-4 years at least. There's a big problem with its own climbs. I dread to think what means "less climbing". It will be like in 2007, probably.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Does anyone know why the Vuelta organizers avoid of using French Pyrenees so persistently? Perhaps, the race could visit France once in 3-4 years at least. There's a big problem with its own climbs. I dread to think what means "less climbing". It will be like in 2007, probably.

No. There is no problem whatsoever with the Vuelta sticking to its own climbs. It just has to stop going back to the same ones and use unused or barely used ones like Haza Del Lino, Coll de Pal, Vallter2000, San Miguel de Áralar, Higo de Monréal, and so on. After all, Anglirú, Bola del Mundo, Cotobello and La Pandera are all relatively recent discoveries and additions to the race. They just need to be smarter about what they use, rather than just going "nah, can't think of anything off the top of my head, let's just do Lagos de Covadonga and Puerto de Navacerrada again".

If they're going to use the Eastern (Jau, Mantet) and Western (Arnostegi, Larrau, Errozate) French Pyrenées, the ones we hardly see in the Tour, then I don't mind at all. If they're going to go over Aspin, Aubisque and the goddamn Tourmalet, then I do have a problem. Those mid-Pyrenées climbs are used too often already, without sending the Vuelta over them every three years too.

 

[airstream]

Yeah. It would be a great solution to use Port de Larrau as MTF. Surely, not all climbs are appropriate for this and yet. I'd prefer Aubisque and Tourmalet rather than Arcalis or Pla-de-Beret, being doomed to meet 20-30 people peloton, although Tourmalet could not get into the broadcast, considering the Vuelta is televised for 1.30-2 hours. Possibly, they are just afraid to overcharge the parcours as then nobody will go?

 

[Descender]

The problem with the Vuelta is not too much climbing or too little climbing, it's proper climbing. When riders like Fuglsang are making the top 10 and yet people complain the race has been too hard, you know you have a problem. And that problem has a name and surname: Abraham Olano. This guy must go. Now.

I'm willing to bet my balls that next year's course will follow the exact same guidelines as this year's, only with less climbing. Will that make the racing more entertaining? No it won't, it will make it even more dull.

The Vuelta needs to dig up some of its best ideas from, for instance, the best route of the history of the race, the 2006 one:

Same climb as this year, but with other ones before it:

One of the hardest stages of the history of the race.

Don't be fooled by the weird profile, looking at the kms we find the top of the climb is merely 20kms from the finish. Here is where Kashezkin and Vinokourov dropped Valverde.

Certainly not the best you can do with Calar Alto, but not too shabby:

 

[airstream]

Only Vino dropped Valverde on that stage, though La Cobertoria is a real beast by the Vuelta standarts... The thing is the climbs themselves are often not good enough to create gaps but the organizers only aggravate the situation by making totally flat stages with finishes on the Lagos di Cavadonga or Sierra Nevada. It's a sneer.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Well vuelta organizers wanted to return to spring, I think we could be confident they'd have a better lien up of climbing with that. But of course that will never happen. I don't know if i even like the idea, but you can't blame them for disliking the spot they have.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Only Vino dropped Valverde on that descend. The thing is the climbs themselves are often not good enough to create gaps but the organizers only aggravate the situation by making totally flat stages with finishes on the Lagos di Cavadonga or Sierra Nevada. It's a sneer.

Yea, let's dogpile on the Vuelta. Sierra Nevada this year was stage 4. You want to tell me you expect a four HC climb stage halfway through week 1? The Lagos de Covadonga stage in 2010 was a stupid stage for sure, but then the Tour does that a lot - Ventoux in 2009 being notable. Hell, in 2010 the Vuelta had a one climb stage to Vallnord Sector Pal - Pal!!! - and it was exciting.

There are plenty of climbs that are long enough and hard enough to create gaps, and big ones at that. Not just Anglirú, but elsewhere. The Coll de Pal is 19km at 6,5%, Vallter2000 as used in the 100%Tondó ride is 19,4km @ 6%, and both can be attached to some gradual but long Catalunya climbs. San Miguel de Áralar is in Navarre and can be attached to a couple of good climbs, though it is likely to have some flat before the base of the final climb, which is 11,2km at 8,1% on the same type of concrete roads as Bola del Mundo. Haza del Lino has several approaches; two from the south are 22,2km @ 5,8% (but with an incredibly tough middle section before a small descent and more gradual finale) and another at 18,0km @ 7,1%, but it has the benefit over many of the other mentioned climbs of being able to be used as a pass and so there can be a wider range of things done with it. Collado Trevinca can be climbed from its Galician side (27,2km @ 5,5%, last 7km @ 8,1%) or from Castilla y León (10,7km @ 7,3%) where it can be attached to the difficult Alto del Peñón. Certainly you could take your cues from the Vuelta a Asturias and go over Pozo de la Mujeres Muertas (11km, 6,2%) as a lead in to a finish on the Alto del Acebo (10km, 8,1%).

A while back I posted this Vuelta tappone from Ponferrada to Oviedo. It's 230km and features a number of major climbs, which become less extreme and shorter as the stage goes on, but with more opportunities for escaping given all of the destruction already in people's legs.

Climbs:
Puerto de Somiedo (17,8km @ 2,7%)
San Lorenzo (10,4km @ 8,4%)
Puerto de la Ventana (18,0km @ 5,9%)
Alto de la Cobertoria (8,8km @ 7,8%)
Alto del Cordal (5,6km @ 8,9%)
Alto de la Vara (7,0km @ 5,7%).

There are a few variations you can try on this - for example, you could leave Ventana out and go straight from San Lorenzo to la Cobertoria; you could ignore la Vara and the run in to Oviedo and instead go up Anglirú after El Cordal, you could continue past Oviedo and add Monte Naranco (5,5km @ 6,5%) as an MTF, you could replace Cordal and La Vara with a Cotobello finish like in 2010, or - my personal favourite - you could replace La Vara with the smaller climb to Ablanedo (5,0km @ 6,4%, but includes a stretch of up to 19%).

 

[Descender]

Yea, let's dogpile on the Vuelta. Sierra Nevada this year was stage 4. You want to tell me you expect a four HC climb stage halfway through week 1? The Lagos de Covadonga stage in 2010 was a stupid stage for sure, but then the Tour does that a lot - Ventoux in 2009 being notable. Hell, in 2010 the Vuelta had a one climb stage to Vallnord Sector Pal - Pal!!! - and it was exciting.

There are plenty of climbs that are long enough and hard enough to create gaps, and big ones at that. Not just Anglirú, but elsewhere. The Coll de Pal is 19km at 6,5%, Vallter2000 as used in the 100%Tondó ride is 19,4km @ 6%, and both can be attached to some gradual but long Catalunya climbs. San Miguel de Áralar is in Navarre and can be attached to a couple of good climbs, though it is likely to have some flat before the base of the final climb, which is 11,2km at 8,1% on the same type of concrete roads as Bola del Mundo. Haza del Lino has several approaches; two from the south are 22,2km @ 5,8% (but with an incredibly tough middle section before a small descent and more gradual finale) and another at 18,0km @ 7,1%, but it has the benefit over many of the other mentioned climbs of being able to be used as a pass and so there can be a wider range of things done with it. Collado Trevinca can be climbed from its Galician side (27,2km @ 5,5%, last 7km @ 8,1%) or from Castilla y León (10,7km @ 7,3%) where it can be attached to the difficult Alto del Peñón. Certainly you could take your cues from the Vuelta a Asturias and go over Pozo de la Mujeres Muertas (11km, 6,2%) as a lead in to a finish on the Alto del Acebo (10km, 8,1%).

A while back I posted this Vuelta tappone from Ponferrada to Oviedo. It's 230km and features a number of major climbs, which become less extreme and shorter as the stage goes on, but with more opportunities for escaping given all of the destruction already in people's legs.

Climbs:
Puerto de Somiedo (17,8km @ 2,7%)
San Lorenzo (10,4km @ 8,4%)
Puerto de la Ventana (18,0km @ 5,9%)
Alto de la Cobertoria (8,8km @ 7,8%)
Alto del Cordal (5,6km @ 8,9%)
Alto de la Vara (7,0km @ 5,7%).

There are a few variations you can try on this - for example, you could leave Ventana out and go straight from San Lorenzo to la Cobertoria; you could ignore la Vara and the run in to Oviedo and instead go up Anglirú after El Cordal, you could continue past Oviedo and add Monte Naranco (5,5km @ 6,5%) as an MTF, you could replace Cordal and La Vara with a Cotobello finish like in 2010, or - my personal favourite - you could replace La Vara with the smaller climb to Ablanedo (5,0km @ 6,4%, but includes a stretch of up to 19%).

Ventana should be asphalted, though, as the Trobaniello side is gravel.

 

[Descender]

Only Vino dropped Valverde on that stage, though La Cobertoria is a real beast by the Vuelta standarts... The thing is the climbs themselves are often not good enough to create gaps but the organizers only aggravate the situation by making totally flat stages with finishes on the Lagos di Cavadonga or Sierra Nevada. It's a sneer.

One can make many criticisms to the Vuelta and I am the first one to make them, but this one I cannot accept.

Let's take some of the climbs of that 06 edition:

Calar Alto from Gérgal, 22.6kms at 6.4%.

Calar Alto from Tíjola, 32kms at 4.9%.

Monachil

http://www.cyclingcols.com/profiles/MonachilS.gif

This climb can be perfectly linked to the one in my avatar, the Collado de las Sabinas, which from its hardest side would be one of the hardest mountain passes ever:

And then one could descend to Granada through the traditional Sierra Nevada road or else tackle the Collado del Alguacil right after finishing the descent:

http://www.altimetrias.net/aspbk/verPerfilusu.asp?id=515

Then there's the several sides to Haza de Lino, which Libertine mentioned and which has inexplicably never been used in the Vuelta:

Polopos side, 17.4kms at 7.3%.

Rubite side, 21kms at 6%.

http://www.cyclingcols.com/profiles/HazaDelLinoSW.gif


That's 6 climbs already that are HC by any standards, perfectly linkable to several other hard climbs, and in the south-east alone (and not mentioning other HC climbs in the area, like La Pandera).

 

[airstream]

You want to tell me you expect a four HC climb stage halfway through week 1?

Unessentially. They could use it from the Monachil side. Stage like that just looks like medium mountains one, in spite of an altitude.

The Lagos de Covadonga stage in 2010 was a stupid stage for sure, but then the Tour does that a lot - Ventoux in 2009 being notable. Hell, in 2010 the Vuelta had a one climb stage to Vallnord Sector Pal - Pal!!! - and it was exciting

A dull Mont Ventoux was rather a situational case. If no one needs anything, this fact is able to kill action on any climb. It's not about the complexity of the stage, the result was predermined up to that moment. We can't tell the same about Cavadonga.

I don't criticize, just accept things as they are.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yea, there are more than enough climbs in Spain to create far more gaps than the beloved 20+km @ 5% grinds in France. It's just that the Vuelta doesn't use them or doesn't utilise them to their best potential (i.e. one-climb stages or, as with the stupendously hard Ancares, not close enough to the finish to be effective). To give the organisers their credit they have been introducing new and difficult climbs recently (Anglirú, Cotobello, Farrapona, La Pandera, Valdepeñas de Jaén) as well as returning to long-forgotten ones (Peña Cabarga).

Also, announced just now, they're going to Andorra - but not climbing the usual ones of Arcalis, Ordino, Pal or even Naturlandía La Rabassa (which they brought in in 2008).

No, instead they're going to Coll de la Gallina de Sant Julià de Lorià (7km, 8,3%, max. 18%). This is reported to be in stage 8, with stage 9 thus beginning in Andorra La Vella and travelling back into Catalunya (Coll de Pal please!!!).
http://www.elperiodicdandorra.ad/esports/14669-la-nova-joia-de-la-vuelta.html

 

[The Hitch]

Vuelta should get slightly better if they make a regular thing out of Pais Vasco. Even if they just include 1 or 2 stages similar to the best ones in VCaPV, those will be their hilly stages for the race and very likely see GC gaps.